Jhon the Baptist SCJ

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r/Shincheonji

2 yr. ago

iyree

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john the baptist isn’t saved in scj?

teaching/doctrine

my mom is in this cult and has been for a year now. she won’t explain this one to me but says that john the baptist died unsaved. can someone explain their interpretations of this?

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scj_love

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2y ago

‘Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.’ ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:11‬ ‭ESV‬‬

https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.11.11.ESV

It means he is not in the kingdom. He didn’t join Jesus’ congregation. Scj believe in the spiritual realm you still can get saved, so in the end will he be saved? Only God knows.

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cblw13

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2y ago

I believe John the Baptist was saved and that SCJ said he wasn't to fit their narrative about LMH. I came to this conclusion because I read the entire chapters (not just select verses) about John the Baptist and saw that he was for God up until the end. I recommend that you read the word directly and ask God for understanding.

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Shincheonji-Skeptic

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2y ago

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Edited 2y ago

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This is how I used to teach about John the Baptist in SCJ's center course:

Introduction:

About 2400 years ago Malachi prophesied that before the messenger of the Old Covenant comes that God will send a messenger to prepare the way. He prophesied that the messenger of the covenant will make his appearance in the temple of the messenger who prepares the way. The messenger of the Old Covenant is the person who was to come according to the prophecies of the Old Covenant and testify to its fulfillment. God came to the messenger of the Old Covenant and fulfilled the work that was promised in the Old Testament (Mal 3:1).

Tabernacle of Moses:

In the Old Testament God instructed Moses to build a tabernacle on the earth where God could dwell. Moses had to construct the tabernacle exactly according to the pattern that God had shown him from heaven (Ex 25:8 – 9). According to the Hebrew language the word “tabernacle” means dwelling place (Mishkan). Since heaven is the dwelling place of God, we can say that the tabernacle was heaven on earth. The tabernacle was not the reality of heaven on earth but merely a copy and shadow (Heb 8:5, 10:1). This tabernacle was merely an illustration of a future reality that would appear at the time of the new order (New Testament - spiritual) (Heb 9:9 – 10). The tabernacle was divided into two rooms, the holy place and the most holy place, and also had a courtyard. In the holy place (1st room) there was a golden lampstand, a golden table with the bread of the Presence and a golden altar of incense. In the most holy place – holy of holies (2nd room) there was the gold – covered ark of the covenant that contained a golden jar of manna, Aaron’s rod which budded and the stone tablets of the covenant. The courtyard had a bronze altar (burnt offerings) and a bronze basin (wash hands and feet). Thus, the origin of the lampstand can be found in the tabernacle of Moses within the holy place (Heb 9:1 – 2). The lampstand was tended to by Aaron and shone in the darkness from evening until the morning when the sun (true light) rose (Ex 27:20 – 21).

Therefore, we can see that Aaron was the one with the duty of lampstand at that time (Lev 24:1 – 4). Moses was the one whom God came to, to fulfill the promise He had made to Abraham (Ex 2:23 – 3:10). Therefore, Moses was the messenger of the covenant that God made with Abraham. Moses tried to avoid the duty of being the messenger of the covenant, so God appointed Aaron to speak on Moses’ behalf. Therefore, Aaron was the messenger who prepared the way for the messenger of the covenant (Moses) (Ex 4:14 – 16). However, Aaron did not fulfill his duty until the end. While Moses was on the mountain for a long time, Aaron made a golden calf as an idol and allowed the people to worship it (Ex 32:1 – 8). We can see that the one who had the duty of lampstand ended up betraying God. God commanded Moses to remove the garments of Aaron and after Moses removed it, Aaron died physically (Num 20:24 – 28). By removing the garments of Aaron, it shows how the duty of lampstand was removed from Aaron. This happened as a shadow and a copy of what was to be fulfilled in the future (Heb 10:1).

Messengers at the 1st Coming:

Malachi prophesied that God was going to send the prophet Elijah before the day of the Lord (messenger of Old Covenant) (Mal 4:5). Therefore, the messenger of the Old Covenant could only come to do his work after Elijah had appeared. Elijah didn’t come back as a flesh but spiritually through the work of John the Baptist by turning the hearts of the people back to their father God (Mal 4:6, Mt 17:10 – 13, Lk 1:13, 1:17). John the Baptist was the messenger who prepared the way for the messenger of the Old Covenant (Jesus). The reason why Jesus was the messenger of the Old Covenant is because he came according to the prophecies of the Old Testament. The tabernacle (church) of John the Baptist was the spiritual reality of the holy place at the 1st coming. Jesus made his appearance in the church (temple) of John the Baptist where he was baptized, and the spirit of God descended on him like a dove (Mt 3:13 – 17). This is how the prophecies in Malachi were fulfilled (Mal 3 – 4).

Duty of John the Baptist:

John the Baptist fulfilled the duty of the lampstand to prepare the way for the true light. He was the messenger who prepared the way for the messenger of the Old Covenant (Jesus) (Jn 1:6 – 8, 23). He testified to the fact that Jesus was the one sent by God to fulfill the promise of the Old Testament (Jn 1:29 – 34). The spirits of the lampstand were with John the Baptist until the appearance of Jesus according to the prophecies. After this, they left him, and he had to follow Jesus just like everyone else. Since the spirits are spiritual eyes, when the spirits of the lampstand left him, he would become spiritually blind unless he follows Jesus, the one whom the spirit of God was with. Jesus’ first few disciples came from the church of John the Baptist (Jn 1:35 - 42).

Result of John the Baptist:

Sadly, John the Baptist didn’t follow Jesus, doubted him, was shaken in his faith and ended up betraying God (Jn 3:22 – 23). Since the spirits left him, he became a blind guide who continued to lead his own disciples who were also blind (Mt 11:2 – 3). Because the spirit had left John the Baptist, he couldn’t protect his followers from Satan’s pastors (Pharisees, Sadducees and teachers of the law) anymore (Mt 9:14). Satan’s pastors forcefully invaded his church and took control of it (Mt 11:11 – 14). This is how the kingdom of the 1st heaven (church of John the Baptist) came to an end and the holy place was destroyed (Mt 23:2, 38). John the Baptist didn’t die as a martyr for God’s work, but he was imprisoned and then beheaded for getting involved in the affairs of gentiles (Romans) (Mt 14:1 – 12).

Messenger of Old Covenant:

Jesus was the messenger of the Old Covenant whom God came to, to fulfill what was promised in the Old Testament (Lk 24:27, 24:44, Jn 1:14, 5:39, 19:30, 1 Cor 15:3 - 4). He fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament and testified the revealed Word of its fulfillment to the people (Mt 11:27, Jn 17:8). The tabernacle (church) of Jesus was the spiritual reality of the most holy place at the 1st coming (Mt 4:12 - 17).

This is how I used to respond when people told me that John the Baptist died as a martyr for Jesus Christ:

Counter Testimony (John the Baptist died as a martyr for Jesus Christ):

Many people believe that John the Baptist died as a martyr for Jesus Christ. To be a martyr for Jesus means to die for one’s faith in Jesus. They refer to the fact that Jesus said John the Baptist was more than just a prophet and that among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than him (Mt 11:9 – 11, Lk 7:26 – 28). At that time the Jews were waiting for the Prophet (Dt 18:18 – 22), the Messiah / Christ (Is 19:20), and Elijah (Mal 4:5 - 6). The people had many theories about this (Mt 16:14, Mk 6:15, 8:28, Lk 9:8, 9:19). They tried to figure out which one John the Baptist was but he said that he was none of them (Jn 1:21 – 25). John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah (Mt 11:13 – 15, 17:9 – 13, Lk 1:13 – 17) and Jesus was the Prophet and the Messiah / Christ (Mt 16:13 – 20, Lk 24:27, 24:44, Jn 1:41 – 45, 4:25 – 26, 5:36 – 39, Acts 3:18 – 24). Even though John the Baptist initially believed in Jesus as the Messiah when it was revealed to him by God (Jn 1:29 – 34), and he told his disciples to follow Jesus (Jn 1:35 – 45), he himself didn’t follow Jesus, doubted and was shaken in his faith (Mt 9:14, 11:2 – 3, Lk 7:18 – 20, Jn 3:22 - 23). He fell away because he looked at Jesus as just flesh (Mt 11:6, Lk 7:23). John the Baptist and Jesus were related to each other through their mothers Elizabeth and Mary (Lk 1:36). His faith was like a weak reed swayed by the wind and easily broken (Mt 11:7, Lk 7:24). Even though he was the greatest person in the world of physical Israel (holy place), the least in the world of spiritual Israel (most holy place) was greater than him since they believed and followed Jesus (Mt 11:9 – 11, Lk 7:26 – 28). Peter also made a similar mistake when he rebuked Jesus. Peter grew too physically attached to Jesus but Jesus valued doing God’s will above his friendship with Peter (Mt 16:21 – 23). John the Baptist didn’t die as a martyr for Jesus, but he was imprisoned and then beheaded for getting involved in the affairs of gentiles – Romans (Mt 14:1 – 12, Mk 6:14 – 29, Lk 3:19 – 20). John the Baptist got involved in worldly (civilian) affairs and didn’t think about how to act according to the will of God by following Jesus and testifying that Jesus was the true light (2 Tim 2:3 – 4). He didn’t suffer for his faith in Jesus Christ, but rather for meddling in the affairs of the gentiles (1 Pt 4:12 – 16).